| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1843
   |
Posted - 2014.12.29 10:08:35 -
[1] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Hulk is king of the miners. They just require you to be at the computer and use and orca and/or other support to haul.
Mack just became popular because of the uberoreholds and the buffed tank which made them better for AFK miners.
If anything, the SKIFF needs to be fixed and have its yield reduced. To have good yield AND battleship tank AND drone bonus is just bad design that sends the wrong message to its 'entitled' pilots.
Skiff does not have BS tank. Unless you are talking about an active tanked BS while measuring it against a passive tanked skiff. It would be far more reasonable to say it has BC sized tank. Also it has weaker than cruiser level drones due to the limited bandwidth available to it. And it doesn't have good yield, especially not if you want to have any kind of DPS on the drones, control range is limited, no utility and no tracking or speed mods for drones either unless you have no tank.
Macks tank also received virtually no buff at all in the changes. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1987
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 21:37:20 -
[2] - Quote
Since this is a necro'ed discussion again....
The correct solution is actually to give one of the barges Cruiser or BC numbers of slots (14 or 17 for the T1's) depending on if you want to call them Cruiser or BC size. Make a module (which has a stacking penalty or fixed bonus only) which adds to ore hold (could be cargo extenders which should have stacking penalty anyway). And then give it cruiser/bc level base EHP & PG/CPU.
Put a hard cap on the strip miners that can be fitted just like Command Links. (Could even allow Command processors to increase this if you really wanted ala utterly untanked 5 strip miners).
And then turn the other two barges into alternative Ore ships. Like the often demanded Ore Transport and Ore Combat ship.
Then players actually would have to make serious choices fitting their barges. Currently there is so much in the base stats and so few fitting slots & so little PG/CPU that you can't make any meaningful choices other than picking a hull. Having the majority of the stats be in the modules makes choices more meaningful and removes this silly trinary balancing that is going on. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2003
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 00:53:08 -
[3] - Quote
Same as always, get rid of two of the barges, turn them into a hauler and a combat cruiser for ORE.
And give the third barge REAL fittings, like PG & CPU of a Cruiser or BC, and the same number of slots.
Then let fittings decide everything rather than hard baked stats. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2007
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 06:14:31 -
[4] - Quote
Well. Nothing says 1 catalyst is the level to balance at to be fair. It's just people got used to that being the level for so long that when it changed to need two it felt odd. But you need two to gang most bc's and all bs also. At least. So it depends what class of ship CCP consider a barge to be size equivalent to.
But it's not that miners can't handle fittings. A lot of people asked for real fittings when they got changed also. Just because there were three barges they kept three barges. To avoid a hugely messy bpo and hull change over. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2008
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 06:51:35 -
[5] - Quote
Yea. Agree on the fittings barely making a difference being a huge issue. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2009
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 11:00:27 -
[6] - Quote
Actually you can group mine in high sec just fine also.
Outside highsec hulks are at even more risk unless you have massive blue space to spot people coming because 5 seconds and they blow up. While a fleet of Skiffs might actually last long enough to support, and skiffs have much more dangerous drones on their own also.
So outside of blue ball space you aren't going to see hulk fleets either. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2010
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 12:07:12 -
[7] - Quote
Try just giving Hulks the same ore hold as the Skiff, Covetors the same as the Proc. I think at that point you would see them used in a more balanced fashion also. As the ore hold would still be less than the Mack, but no longer the utter worst of the three and not able to hold 2 cycles with boosts. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2032
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 19:57:25 -
[8] - Quote
PJRiddick wrote:
My issue here is that the skiff is the first in the tree of mining, give it a serious tank but not to outmine the hulk
You sir, have not bothered looking at the ship requirements since tiericide happened.
All of them now have the same requirements, Skiff is not first on the tree, they are all equal but different.
I still maintain they should be trimmed down to just a single barge with real fittings, and repurpose the other two hulls to a combat cruiser & hauler that can still fit a strip miner or two but no mining bonuses, so your hauler sits there mining a bit rather than wasted time. And your escort can also contribute to ore while waiting for combat.
I.E.
Repurpose Procurer to match Navy Vexor Bonuses, but no gun slots (To avoid model redesign, if model redesign is possible I'd add unbonused missile/gun hardpoints), Can still fit one strip miner but no bonuses, maybe only 100 Drone Bandwidth or something. Very small ore hold.
Repurpose Retriever to match the Gal ore hauler, but with real slot numbers (matching cruiser or even BC depending on final size). Can fit 2 strip miners but no bonuses towards them. And at least 1 utility high above & beyond the strip miners. Leave drone capability intact for defence but no guns at all.
Covetor then gets treated as if it were a Cruiser or BC (My preference goes towards treating Barges as BC's so they are bigger lumbering vessels that feel appropriate for chewing through ore). Slots, PG/CPU & base EHP per Cruisers. Ore Hold to match current Proc hold. New stacking penalised module to increase ore hold or cargo expansions now stacking penalise and affect ore hold also. 3 Strip Miners, 4/5 highslots, new 'Mining Processor' that works like Command Processor but lets you fit an additional strip miner.
This then lets you think about what you really want to fit on your Barges, do you go for 5 strip miners but sacrifice all your CPU to do this (Ala 6 link T3's) so have utterly no tank. Do you take a Moderate balance in the middle with prop mods, do you go dual buffer tank for brick. Etc.
Just as reference for the gankers whining that 'I'm just wanting to Buff EHP' an untanked Cyclone has 20k EHP vs Omni, & basically identical 20k vs blasters. Which should be achievable by a max skill solo catalyst in a 0.5 system. Proc's start at 26k and go up from there with fittings. You could insist that they only count as cruisers, but then they get Cruiser align times, speed & sig bonuses compared to BC's, making them harder to catch. But having only 8kish EHP unfitted. If they get real fittings and opportunities, I'm not fussed either way, the current problem is the lack of options when you only have 3-4 slots to even think about on the T1's, of which at least 1 has to be an MLU for any real mining ability (How many of you make a DPS fit with no DPS enhancing mods of any sort after all), and no PG or CPU to put anything decent into those slots also. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2036
|
Posted - 2015.04.15 03:03:58 -
[9] - Quote
I was specifically meaning Cruiser PG, so take oh..... a Moa as the base PG/CPU. Being shield tanked also.
So that they can actually fit a full set of cruiser fittings. Like, oh, Prop mods, they can actually use shield extenders or plates if they want to brick tank, etc.
Rather than continuing the current line of gimped fitting thinking.
The best analogy for EVE in terms of historical time period is actually the Spanish treasure galleons, not the super tankers of today. The Spanish sailed in an era of true piracy, and often had more guns and heavier hull than the pirates attacking them, despite hauling massive cargo's in their ships. They were just slow to manoeuvre so could be out sailed, or a pack of pirates might attack a single galleon. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2050
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 00:56:31 -
[10] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Oh I know, but remember that after you put guns on your cruiser, most of the powergrid is already gone.
If it was given 400mw powergrid, it could easily fit 2 launchers, a MWD, and a command processor. The strip miners only take 1mw. Now it would struggle to fit on a 1600mm armor plate but so do other cruisers, without gimping their weapons anyway. At 300mw, it needs to be a bit more cautious with powergrid expenditure. It can fit a 200mm armor plate, but a large shield extender is a lot more forgiving. I'm not suggesting putting its fitting anywhere near as limited as the Procurer or Skiff are currently, with 45mw/50mw of powergrid. 300mw is very much within the cruiser range, just on the low end. We'll chalk that up to it being an industrial ship, probably has its hull more focused on carrying capacity than power routing capacity.
Yet Vexors & Ishtars don't suddenly have half the PG of other ships despite the fact they don't have to fit guns as drone ships. If you give them real PG they get real fitting options. You might also give Strip Miners some PG costs along side I suppose, but it also allows for a greater variety of 'surprise, a full rack of neut' fits. Rather than continuing to artifically restrict them.
|
| |
|